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i just read this on sfgate - there's no need for all the attitude. in fact, it is highly divisive. here's an excerpt and the link:
"The final blow for longtime Burning Man devotee "Chicken John" Rinaldi was a camp called Operation Desert Snuggle, a pink tent adorned with sleeping bags, blankets and a bunch of bright-colored cushions.
That was 2002. Rinaldi hasn't been back since because, he says, what was once a chaotic celebration of art has devolved into a week of mindless partying, with no element of surprise, barely any art and way too many snugglers.
"Those people bought their stuff online and made a petting zoo for overweight people in their mid-40s," said the 36-year-old owner of the Odeon Bar, a Burning Man haunt in the Mission District. "That made me violent. I wanted to burn that thing to the ground.
"Burning Man has turned into a giant group hug in the desert."
Rinaldi, San Francisco artist Jim Mason and hundreds of other Bay Area burners insist that the annual event in the Nevada desert has strayed far from its artistic roots. They have decided to "fix" an event they say has grown bland."
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi
if they think there is something to fix, fine. fix it. but why does "chicken john" have to be so insulting? i mean, everybody wants burning man to have cool art! duh!
"The final blow for longtime Burning Man devotee "Chicken John" Rinaldi was a camp called Operation Desert Snuggle, a pink tent adorned with sleeping bags, blankets and a bunch of bright-colored cushions.
That was 2002. Rinaldi hasn't been back since because, he says, what was once a chaotic celebration of art has devolved into a week of mindless partying, with no element of surprise, barely any art and way too many snugglers.
"Those people bought their stuff online and made a petting zoo for overweight people in their mid-40s," said the 36-year-old owner of the Odeon Bar, a Burning Man haunt in the Mission District. "That made me violent. I wanted to burn that thing to the ground.
"Burning Man has turned into a giant group hug in the desert."
Rinaldi, San Francisco artist Jim Mason and hundreds of other Bay Area burners insist that the annual event in the Nevada desert has strayed far from its artistic roots. They have decided to "fix" an event they say has grown bland."
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi
if they think there is something to fix, fine. fix it. but why does "chicken john" have to be so insulting? i mean, everybody wants burning man to have cool art! duh!
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 10:50 AMWell, imagine if all people did was to haul bright-colored cushions to the desert and call that their participation. The problem is not necessarily the snuggling. There is a place for that. The problem is when the snuggling becomes prevalent and the interesting art and creation becomes a sideshow. The problem is lowering the bar when people start thinking that it suffices to put a pink tent up. The problem is passivity and lazyness and the passive and lazy people that are attracted by it, who think that all they need to do is buy a fuzzy suit online. That is the problem. So if Chicken was going to burn it to the ground and I was there, I'd light the match.
And no, I am not speaking for Chicken John, That's just my take on it. -
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Unsu...
Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 11:16 AMso chicken makes a warm welcoming environment that encourages that behavior, then goes sour when too many people like his idea? does he like hate himself or something? is borg2 his new project for making people "passive and lazy" so he can have an excuse to tear them down and prop himself up?
i'm really sorry, i just don't understand. what is so wrong about having fun? -
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 11:44 AMThe Borg2 Politburo, through its Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice has declared that any so-called "fun" activities are counter-revolutionary, degenerated and the cultural detritus of a decadent bourgeoisie.
So there. -
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Unsu...
Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 11:47 AMput that in your pipe and smoke it, dr. poopypants!
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Unsu...
Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sat, January 8, 2005 - 3:43 AM"The problem is not necessarily the snuggling. There is a place for that. The problem is when the snuggling becomes prevalent and the interesting art and creation becomes a sideshow."
Well put.
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 11:51 AMI can understand the frustration when something you love seems to be changing focus.
I remember how irritated I was, back in the late 90's, when raves turned into fashion shows for high school cliques, and the people who founded the scene and produced the music were suddenly treated like they weren't welcome anymore.
But I definitely have an issue with Chicken John's remark about the ages and weights of the denizens of "Operation Desert Snuggle".
What? Is he going to post a picture of a couple of models (e.g. some perfect buff young woman and some perfect buff young man) at the gate of Burning Man, with a sign saying "You must be at least this young and at least this pretty, fit, and slender to enter"?
There are plenty of things to bitch about re Burning Man. How someone else chooses to have their fun -- particularly when their fun isn't making *your* kind of fun impossible, or even difficult -- just doesn't seem to be one of them.
As for "Where is all the wonderful art? What happened to the art?" Every time I hear someone ask that, I just ask them: "So -- what art did *you* bring this year?" So far, the answer every time, was zilch.
What's *my* main beef about Burning Man?
It's just that Burners should get the fuck over themselves. -
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why should you be angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 12:02 PMi don't care so much about burning man (pardon my burnish) but if you want to encourage more arizonans to come you'll have more art, more freaks and more free entertainment. think flam chen, they are FROM tucson! and gigi-d. i tell you arizona burners are fucking freaks and a half. but why are people angry nowadays? that's altogether another beast of indescribable proportions - and color.
israel.tribe.net/thread/76...d09e1329dd
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sun, January 2, 2005 - 7:05 PMExactly! We really want the same things.
Seriously now, except for the article and Chicken's incendiary rhetoric, which is part of the Chicken Show, I don't get this exlusion vibe at all. What I see is people going out of their way to include as many people as possible and working WITHIN Bmorg to do try to point another way of doing things. I have nothing against ravers. I am an aging raver myself. Friends & Family, Sol System, Tantra, Thumpradio, I go to all these parties. Heck, I make my own music. The problem is not really that there are more raves, it's that there is less interesting art. But at BM the blinky light music should be the sideshow (you can rave all year round, there's only one BM) to great art, not the other way around. Just my opinion.
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Unsu...
Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sat, January 8, 2005 - 3:46 AM"I can understand the frustration when something you love seems to be changing focus.
I remember how irritated I was, back in the late 90's, when raves turned into fashion shows for high school cliques, and the people who founded the scene and produced the music were suddenly treated like they weren't welcome anymore."
Or like how there used to be lots of trannies and street hustlers at night on Polk Street and now it's turning into 20-something yuppies on cell phones. -
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Unsu...
Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sat, January 8, 2005 - 10:12 AM"20-something yuppies on cell phones. "
What're they sellin'? ;) -
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Sat, March 5, 2005 - 11:35 AM
yes, i feel the same way in that there has been a vibe-exploiting shift away from the discovery and creation to just plain lazy "fingersnapping" at the playa spirit as seen here in BORG4-
"We are the ravers. The people of PLUR. We are the fuzzy people who buy all the tickets so all you "artiste" types can get grants to make art to decorate our transcendental dance party. We are here to say thank you. And to encourage you to make more fabulous dance party decorations. We like 'em. and we want more. In fact, we demand more. If we don't get more, we are going to stop coming to the event to dance and go dance somewhere else."
and yes, i think alot of the ravers have this attitude even if they don't think so. not ALL the ravers but enough of them to make the masses feel the effects of all "gawk" and no "talk"... i think if a person can write this in open forum as a post that there is a clear and free to movement miss the point of BM... -
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Fri, March 25, 2005 - 1:34 PMTurner the Burner-
Something that seems to be escaping the *pro-artist-anti-everyone-else* coalition is the question "What is art?"
What makes an event like Burning Man so amazing is that you get hundreds of people doing what THEY do. It's chaos. It's a breeding ground for creation and a model of specialization. For someone sporting a fractal in their album, I'm surprised that you don't have more of a respect for that fundamental of a functional system. I believe that "art" is anything that someone is passionate enough about to explore to a deeper than average level of understanding. I don't give a flying dingo about math, but I'm sure glad there are people who do. Everyone picks their own medium and who are you to say which is *the best* or *most beneficial*?
If your art is fulfilling, why are you stressing so much on the activities of others? -
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Fri, March 25, 2005 - 3:38 PMMr. Turner gets his art (and his taxes) done very early in the year so he has plenty of time to critique his fellow burners' art or lack thereof.
Good job Mr. Turner!
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Fri, March 25, 2005 - 5:59 PMBurning man is about the art. And about donig things you can't do at home.
Naked technically isn't art, but its fun to run around burningman naked. Some school teacher from Kansas probably can't find snuggle parties to attend in her neighborhood.
And maybe there are ravers who appreciate art and like the art at burningman through a heightened mental state from psychedelics and the like. Raving at burningman is a VERY a unique experiance you can't find anywhere else.
Burningman is about ART and doing what you can't do at home. It has evolved. It may have been all about the art in the beginning. Now its ALSO about doing stuff you can't do at home. We have it real good here in San Francisco, and we don't even appreciate it.
I really don't like how people generalize "raver". it seems a "raver" by borg2 definition is anyone who drinks, dances, snuggles, or does anything that is not building large art exibits.
I also don't like generalizations at all, since one description can NEVER describe a whole group.
Except my generalizations about artists. those ones are true. And they stink because they never shower.
And a random statistic (OK, not random) BORG2 tribe (which most likely is not all hard cores, but a lot of useless groupies) makes up a staggering 2% (712 of 35,000) of the total population last year, this next year, it may only be 1.9% of burningman population.
How can 98% of the people be wrong 100% of the time? -
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Re: borg2 - why so angry?
Fri, March 25, 2005 - 7:26 PMThanks for the MATH my friend.
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